Click the post title to be taken to the source.
Rick Warren’s PEACE Train rolled into the Clinton Global Initiative 2008 Conference. Warren detailed the business and service opportunities that exist within the global faith sector.
The Berean Call examines the PEACE Plan in light of the Scriptures. The results reveal the unbiblical mission Warren is creating for the church in the name of global good works.
HT: Watcher’s Lamp
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
(10) Therefore David blessed the LORD in the presence of all the assembly. And David said: “Blessed are you, O LORD, the God of Israel our father, forever and ever. (11) Yours, O LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is [...]
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
I was living in Washington, D.C. when Jimmy Carter was elected President of the United States. This was in 1976. I remember the media making a big deal of the fact that Carter claimed to be a “Born Again Christian.” I remember a cartoon in Time Magazine later that year that portrayed a sidewalk scene in some large city with normal sized people staring at some adults who were only about 1/3 size. One woman said, “Oh look, born agains!”
(click here to read this post)
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
The apostatizing evangelical community has not heard the last of these kinds of Christian confessions as they follow the fickle lead of postevangelicalism’s Burger King “have it your way” version of the Christian faith.
Don’t worry; be happy, everything’s ok as long as you’re singing right along with Lennon and McCartney: “All you need is love.” For those who haven’t seen it and/or would like to add their own thoughts in the feedback section you can find the link to my latest article at Christian Worldview Network here.
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
From Slice of Laodicea, “The producers of a new documentary on deliverance from porn addiction list these shocking statistics…”
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
This is a message about God’s sovereignty by Pastor Jim McClarty. Pastor McClarty runs the great website http://www.SalvationbyGrace.org . There he has a very thorough QandA section that deals with many questions that are brought against the Reformed faith. You can access that here: http://www.salvationbygrace.org/default.aspx?ct=sub/qa I’ve learned a lot from his ministry and highly recommend it.
This was given at the Sovereign Grace Bible Conference. Here’s information about the conference:
http://www.sovereigngracebibleconference.org/
Author: LaneCh
Keywords: sovereign God sovereignty calvinism arminianism christianity
Added: September 28, 2008
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
My hope is that you can take the time to watch this EXCELLENT sermon!
End of post.
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
The apostatizing evangelical community has not heard the last of these kinds of Christian confessions as they follow the fickle lead of postevangelicalism’s Burger King “have it your way” version of the Christian faith.
Don’t worry; be happy, everything’s ok as long as you’re singing right along with Lennon and McCartney: “All you need is love.” For those who haven’t seen it and/or would like to add their own thoughts in the feedback section you can find the link to my latest article at Christian Worldview Network here.
And we would also like to take this opportunity to thank those of you who supported this labor in the Lord for as long as you did. AM does feel fortunate that we were to able to have stayed in the battle for the three years we have. Unfortunately, it is a sad fact that so many worthy ministries of God do fall by the wayside due to a lack of financial means.
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
In my email this morning, I received this interview pitch. We see the financial markets in meltdown. Now those with the solution are stepping forward with this idea:
ONE DEMOCRATIC WORLD GOVERNMENT?
Interview the Expert Who Says it Can and Will Happen
“I fully anticipate watching the inaugural session of a directly elected world parliament on TV by 2018.”
–Author Jim Stark
To Jim Stark, it’s simple: We are on a clear course toward “omnicide,” a human-caused extinction of our species and most life forms on Earth. He is not alone in this opinion; none other than Albert Einstein, citing the unleashing of the atom bomb, said we “drift toward unparalleled catastrophe.” While nuclear weapons continue to be developed by countries around the world and the prospect of dangerous or abrupt climate change sinks into our awareness, that “drift” has become a surge, and we do not have the competent supranational institutions needed to deal effectively with global issues.
The only viable solution: a democratic world government (DWG).
Stark, author of the forthcoming book, Rescue Plan for Planet Earth: Democratic World Government through a Global Referendum, is the first person to not simply endorse and discuss the idea of a democratic world government, but to lay out a specific plan for its creation.
And Stark has the credibility to back up his assertions. He founded Operation Dismantle, a Canadian nuclear disarmament organization, in 1977, and served as president and CEO until 1985. In that role, he lobbied at the United Nations for a global referendum on nuclear disarmament. During the Cold War, Operation Dismantle achieved more than 200 municipal referendums across Canada on the issue of nuclear disarmament.
In a one-of-a-kind interview, Stark can discuss:
* Political tools available which can be used to persuade nations to support a DWG
* Exactly how the Internet can be legitimately used for a global referendum to serve as the launching pad for the creation of a DWG
* How a DWG can be totally transparent and therefore free of corruption
* Why citizens will actually pay less in total taxes when a DWG is in place
* How a DWG can function with the United Nations still intact
* A proposed process for the expedited construction of a world constitution
Rescue Plan for Planet Earth will be released in September 2008 and advance copies can be pre-ordered at
www.RescuePlanForPlanetEarth.com and www.voteworldgovernment.org.
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
Emerging Church Pastor Doug Pagitt lavishes high praise for Phyllis Tickle and her book The Great Emergence, “Phyllis Tickle is the best friend the emergent movement could ever have… Her books, from The Divine Hours to her memoirs, are essential reading.” Indeed Apprising Ministries notes there’s great excitement ’round Emergent Church circles these days about the way Phyllis tickles their ears.
So in this post we give you a bit of an introduction to religious pundit Phyllis Tickle as we turn over a few rocks in scratching the surface Of Tickle’s quite questionable spiritual associations. After reading this piece you may be wondering along with me: Just what kind of Christian faith is it that Phyllis Tickle has Pagitt and the Emerging Church so excited about?
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. (2 Timothy 4:3-4, NASB)
Phyllis, Please Tickle Our Ears…
In ”The Great Emergence: A Reformation Every 500 Years” Roger Oakland of Understanding the Times tells us, “Phyllis Tickle is a best-selling author and the founding editor of the religion department at Publishers Weekly. She is also a friend of the emerging church.” (Online source) These days, who isn’t, eh. From the Lighthouse… also points out:
Emergent church leader, Phyllis Tickle, likens Brian McLaren to Luther who helped to bring about a reformation. Tickle says McLaren might be instrumental in bringing about a “new reformation” through the emerging church. The comments were made at the “joint annual meeting of the Society of Biblical Literature (SBL) and the American Academy of Religion (AAR),” in which Tickle and McLaren were speakers. (Online source)
You know, as fast as evangelicalism is apostatizing before our eyes she might just be right after all about Emergent Church Swami Brian McLaren. But this all seems to explain why at the Emergent Village website in a post called ”Phyllis Tickle To Write Book For Baker/Emersion” we’re informed that:
Phyllis Tickle, founding editor of the religion department at Publishers Weekly, will write a book on emerging Christianity for Baker Books, a division of Baker Publishing Group. The book, whose current working title is The Great Emergence, will be the seventh in Baker’s ēmersion series, a partnership between Baker Books and Emergent Village, intended to provide a practical, positive vision of the church as it steps into the future. (Online source)
And in that same post Emerging Church Pastor Doug Pagitt also lavishes high praise for Tickle and her book The Great Emergence (TGE):
“Phyllis Tickle is the best friend the emergent movement could ever have,” said Doug Pagitt, series editor for ēmersion. “She’s a keen observer of the American church scene. She’s also gracious and wise. Her books, from The Divine Hours to her memoirs, are essential reading. We look forward to the release of The Great Emergence with much anticipation.” (ibid.)
Over at his website Pagitt is then encouraging us “to attend The Great Emergence Event December 5-6 in Memphis. It is going to be an excellent event” (Online source). As we follow the link to The Great Emergence Event (TGEE) we’re enlightened:
‘The Great Emergence’ refers to a monumental phenomenon in our world, and this book asks three questions about it. Or looked at the other way around, this book is about a monumental phenomenon considered from the perspective of three very basic questions: What is this thing? How did it come to be? Where is it going?”
So begins Phyllis Tickle’s extraordinary new book, The Great Emergence: How Christianity Is Changing and Why. In this much-anticipated book, Tickle brings her encyclopedic knowledge of American religion to bear on the current shifts in the Christian landscape. Paired with her Southern wit and charm, The Great Emergence promises to be the bellwether book in emerging Christianity.
The Great Emergence National Event is a unique and freshly designed event built on innovative adult learning techniques including interaction, participation, and inspiring content on the current state of and future possibilities for Christianity. Around the four main sessions with Phyllis Tickle, participants will also enjoy the daily office—thrice daily times of prayer—based on Phyllis Tickle’s bestselling book, The Divine Hours, in the majestic and historic Cathedral of St. Mary in Memphis, Tennessee, which will be bedecked with Advent greenery. (Online source)
So quite obviously there’s no little excitement around Emerging Church circles about Phyllis Tickle as well as her new book poised to tell them what they want to hear. This piece is not designed to be exhaustive as here we are only pointing you to some information in order to introduce you to Phyllis Tickle. This way you can see for yourselves that not a few of Tickle’s association are rather questionable (at best). Concerning Tickle’s TGE at her website we read the following endorsement from an apostate Episcopal “Bishop”:
“Phyllis Tickle offers a creative and provocative overview of multiple social and cultural changes in our era, their relation to previous major paradigm shifts, and their particular impact on North American Christianity. This is an immensely important contribution to the current conversation about new and emerging forms of Christianity in a post-modern environment—and a delight to read!”
—The Most Rev. Katharine Jefferts Schori,
Presiding Bishop and Primate,
The Episcopal Church (Online source)
Scratching The Surface Of Tickle’s Quite Questrionable Spiritual Associations
Then in Tickle’s “About” section we’re informed that Phyllis Tickle is:
founding editor of the Religion Department of PUBLISHERS WEEKLY, the international journal of the book industry, is frequently quoted in sources like USA TODAY, CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR, NY TIMES, as well as in electronic media like PBS, NPR, THE HALLMARK CHANNEL, etc., Tickle is an authority on religion in America and a much sought after lecturer on the subject… Tickle is currently a Senior Fellow of Cathedral College of the Washington National Cathedral. A founding member of The Canterbury Roundtable, she serves now, as she has in the past, on a number of advisory and corporate boards. A lay eucharistic minister and lector in the Episcopal Church,… (Online source)
We note first that Tickle’s “currently a Senior Fellow of Cathedral College of the Washington National Cathedral.” The Cathedral College website gives some background concerning its “interfaith” message:
Washington National Cathedral is a church for national purposes, an Episcopal cathedral welcoming to people of all faiths and none. A unique blend of the spiritual and the civic, the Cathedral is a voice for a generous-spirited Christianity and a catalyst for reconciliation and interfaith dialogue that promotes respect and understanding. We invite everyone to become partners with us and share in our commitment to create a hopeful and just world. (Online source)
So you can see that this is Cathedral College is indeed an extention of the blackhole of liberal theology known as Washington National Cathedral. Its website gives us the lowdown on their sacred circles, labyrinth, and Center for Prayer and Pilgrimage where, but of course, we can learn more about “Prayer and Contemplation,” which is referring to Contemplative/Centering Prayer:
Located on the crypt level of the Cathedral. Open for quiet prayer and meditation. The center invites you to explore its diverse offerings of spiritual growth through communities gathered in prayer, devotional practices and reflection.
Contemplative Prayer
Fourth Saturdays, 10–11 am
The Cathedral Center for Prayer and Pilgrimage offers a community gathering with contemplative prayer. Gatherings are led by the Rev. Milo Coerper, Cathedral chaplain.Benedictine Life and Prayer
Mondays, 6 pm in the CCPP
Explore the principles of living a balanced life, and learn more about the ecumenical cathedral-based Community of Reconciliation. Each gathering concludes with Centering Prayer.Centering Prayer
Tuesdays, 6–7 pm; Wednesdays, 8–8:30 am
Open your entire being to God’s presence during this time of silent prayer as you move beyond thoughts, words and emotions into a quiet communion with the Divine. The Tuesday sessions include a time for teaching and discussion in addition to a time of silenceChristian Meditation: Silence, Stillness, Simplicity
Fourth Saturdays, 10–11 am
Experience a rhythm of contemplative prayer that includes a reading from one of the great contemplatives, a period of silent meditation, and time for sharing and reflection. (Online source)
Frankly, there’s just too much spiritual chicanery going on in the Cathedral of Compromise for me to even share here. Returning more specifically to Phyllis Tickle we find even more questionable associations under the ”RELATED ACTIVITIES/CURRENT” of her resume. Not the least of which was her being part of the ”Board of Advisors, The Mary Baker Eddy Library, emerita” (Online source). For those who may not know Mary Baker Eddy was the founder of the non-Christian cult of Christian Science, which was neither Christian nor science striking out on both accounts.
As one trained in counter-cult evangelism I would have to say that this is certainly a rather odd association for a Christian and one which is not in line with 2 Corinthians 6:14-15. So being charitable my guess is Tickle’s also into liberal/progressive theology. This would also seem to be confirmed from one other thing found in the ”RELATED ACTIVITIES/CURRENT” section of Tickle’s resume. Without a doubt her involvement on the “Editorial Board” at Explore Faith (EF) is a smoking gun.
From the “About Us” section website of EF we meet the rest of this Editorial Board and among them we see “Progressive Christian” Marcus Borg (Online source). In the Apprising Ministries post Marcus Borg Vs. Jesus you’ll clearly see by his own words that he has as much affinity with the genuine Christian faith as I do with Buddhism. And as we check out who’s listed among their “Saints, Prophets and Spiritual Guides” we have very serious reason to question just what kind of “faith” it is that we’re exploring here:
On the following pages, explorefaith.org offers a subjective look at some of the spiritual teachers who have shaped our lives. These essays are by no means comprehensive. Numerous Web Sites catalogue different saints and spiritual guides in great detail (and we will provide links to a few of the best).
Our coverage is intended to show what these people can mean to us now, how they can help us envision new realties in which a relationship with God is the core from which all thoughts and actions spread. Here our explorefaith writers have mused about the spiritual teachers in their lives who continue to give them guidance and help them discover new avenues of devotion deep within. It is our hope that their essays may kindle thoughts of those spiritual teachers who have molded your life, and perhaps spur you to explore a few you might not have known. (Online source)
Men and women, the “spiritual teachers” listed there who supposedly ”can help us envision new realities” literally reads like a who’s who of unregenerate pagans such as Guru Ram Dass, Buddhist Master Thich Nhat Hanh, Sufi Muslim Rumi, and heretical so-called “Christian” mystics like Catherine of Siena, Teresa of Avila and Thomas Merton. Thinking back to when we began, Doug Pagitt tells us that “Phyllis Tickle is the best friend the emergent movement could ever have”.
Well, I find myself wondering: Just what kind of Christian faith is it that Phyllis Tickle has Pagitt and the Emergent Church so excited about?
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
The producers of a new documentary on deliverance from porn addiction list these shocking statistics:
* 60 percent of Christian men and 35 percent of women admit to struggling with pornography. The real statistics are probably much higher.
* Four out of every seven calls to the “Focus on the Family” help line are pornography-related.
* Thirty-seven (37) percent of pastors admit to the addiction.
The documentary film, Somebody’s Daughter, details the destruction of this sin and points to a biblical way out. Here’s the story from WorldnetDaily.
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also. (Acts 17:6)
There is no limit to what God could do in our world if we would dare to surrender before Him with a commitment like this:
“Oh God, I hereby give myself to You. I give my family. I give my business. I give all I possess. Take all of it, Lord-and take me! I give myself in such measure that if it is necessary that I lose everything for your sake, let me lose it. I will not ask what the price is. I will ask only that I may be all that I ought to be as a follower and disciple of Jesus Christ, my Lord. Amen.”
If even 300 of God’s people became that serious, our world would never hear the last of it! They would influence the news. Their message would go everywhere like birds on the wing. They would set off a great revival of New Testament faith and witness.
God wants to deliver us from the easygoing, smooth and silky, fat and comfortable Christianity so fashionable today. I hope we are willing to let the truth get hold of us, even at the cost of rejection or embarrassment.
The faith of the heavenly overcomers cost them everything and gained them everything. What of our faith? JIV, 116-117.
“Oh God, I hereby give myself to You ’in such measure that if it is necessary that I lose everything for your sake, let me lose it. Amen.”
(A.W. Tozer, Tozer On Christian Leadership, September 30)
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also. (Acts 17:6)
There is no limit to what God could do in our world if we would dare to surrender before Him with a commitment like this:
“Oh God, I hereby give myself to You. I give my family. I give my business. I give all I possess. Take all of it, Lord-and take me! I give myself in such measure that if it is necessary that I lose everything for your sake, let me lose it. I will not ask what the price is. I will ask only that I may be all that I ought to be as a follower and disciple of Jesus Christ, my Lord. Amen.”
If even 300 of God’s people became that serious, our world would never hear the last of it! They would influence the news. Their message would go everywhere like birds on the wing. They would set off a great revival of New Testament faith and witness.
God wants to deliver us from the easygoing, smooth and silky, fat and comfortable Christianity so fashionable today. I hope we are willing to let the truth get hold of us, even at the cost of rejection or embarrassment.
The faith of the heavenly overcomers cost them everything and gained them everything. What of our faith? JIV, 116-117.
“Oh God, I hereby give myself to You ’in such measure that if it is necessary that I lose everything for your sake, let me lose it. Amen.”
(A.W. Tozer, Tozer On Christian Leadership, September 30)
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
Here’s a new puff piece on Rick Warren from the Washington Post’s Eboo Patel. He writes glowingly of Rick Warren’s pluralism:
I caught up with Warren after the panel and asked him directly how he thought about religious diversity. He talked to me about his friendship with his Muslim neighbor, and about how excited he was to speak at the upcoming MPAC conference in December. He was keenly aware of the important role that Muslims played in helping victims during the genocide in Rwanda, and he was engaging that community in his current efforts in that country.
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
Without a doubt the culture in the 21st Century is “out of season” for the Gospel. Resistance to the truth of God’s Word is strong because our society has rejected absolute truth. Along with this is the downgrade in morals. I was a teenager in the 1960’s. Even in that “free love” culture there would never be the filth allowed on TV that we see in prime time shows in our time such as “My Name is Earl.” However, our Lord Jesus Christ preached the exclusivity of the Gospel. He confronted sin head on, but in our time preachers water down the message so they won’t offend people by preaching against sin.
(click here to read this post)
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
Two days ago, I arrived late into James White’s chatroom where I stumbled upon a debate that was already in progress. Later, I got the record of the debate and read it through. I thought it would be helpful to post here because I believe it clearly shows the problem with the non-predestinarian view of salvation. To remain consistent in a non-predestinarian/free-will view, it never fails that one has to ultimately give credit to themselves in order to remain consistent with their belief. Read this little debate through, and notice how, when asked the deciding question directly, the free-will proponent had to dodge it relentlessly until he involuntarily has to concede the point at the end. I believe this is one of the clearest examples of why the predestinarian has no room to boast while the free-willer does.
[Apollos] lovetruth: I assume from your comments that you don’t believe that God elects those whom he will save, prior to time ?
[lovetruth] There is no elect group in the bible [ordained to salvation)
[Apollos] Lovetruth: are you a christian ?
[lovetruth] Definitely a Christian: Jesus is my Lord and Saviour
[Apollos] Ok
[Apollos] lovetruth: and how are you saved as a Christian ?
[lovetruth] Jesus pais for all by his blood
[lovetruth] paid*
[Apollos] but I mean
[Apollos] what did you contribute ?
[lovetruth] nothing I do can pay for my salvation: Jesus did it all
[Apollos] lovetruth: do you have any friends or family members who are not saved ?
[lovetruth] Apollos, Yes I have family members who do not know the Lord
[Apollos] lovetruth: can you give me the first name of one of them who is not saved, for the sake of clarity ?
[lovetruth] It does not say God predestined the sin, He predestined the event of the cross. There is a difference
[Apollos] lovetruth: can you tell me the first name of one of your unsaved family members ?
[lovetruth] Apollos: Jean
[Apollos] lovetruth: thanks. Now can you tell me why you are saved and Jean is not ?
[lovetruth] I received Him as per John 1:12
[Apollos] lovetruth: OK. But why are you saved, and Jean is not ?
[lovetruth] Becos God has paid for it all
[Apollos] I am not understanding
[Apollos] If God paid for it all, then wouldn’t Jean be saved as well ?
[lovetruth] And I received the light as per John 1:9
[Apollos] So why is Jean not saved ?
[lovetruth] No, becos he has not receive Him yet
[Apollos] Ok. So why have you received Jesus, and Jean has not ?
[lovetruth] Note the cause and effect in John 1:12
[lovetruth] the receiving comes before the authority to become children of God
[lovetruth] Calvis believe the authrority came 1st
[lovetruth] I am
[Apollos] Lovetruth: I am asking you very simply, why have you recieved Jesus, but Jean has not ]?
[lovetruth]
[lovetruth] Becos the life in me from God enabled me to decide: to say yes
[Apollos] Okl
[lovetruth] and this life [extent) is in all as per the Ss
[Apollos] So why did the life from God enable you to decide to say yes, but it did not do the same for Jean ?
[lovetruth] See Eccl 12:7 [I think)
[lovetruth] Becos he is not using it for that
[Apollos] Why not ?
[Apollos] Why are you using it for that, but Jean is not ?
[lovetruth] As per Matthew 13:12
[lovetruth] We all have
[Apollos] ~nas Matt 13:12
[@Gutenberg^] Matthew 13:12 “For whoever has, to him [more] shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. [NASB)
[lovetruth] but I use my have
[lovetruth] he does not
[Apollos] So are you saying that Jean has not been given ?
[lovetruth] I have just said he has and we all have
[Apollos] So why are you using it and Jean is not ?
[lovetruth] but he has not used his to have more
[Apollos] that is what I am asking
[Apollos] I understand that he hasn’t
[Apollos] the question is Why ?
[lovetruth] No, he has
[lovetruth] otherwise it could nto be taken from him
[Apollos] Why are you using what you have been given, but Jean is not ?
[lovetruth] becos I want righteousness
[Apollos] Ok
[Apollos] So you are morally superior to Jean ?
[Apollos] that is why you are saved ?
[lovetruth] becos we all can, but we don’t all want to
[lovetruth] nope not superior
[Apollos] So you are saying that you were saved because you are morally superior ?
[lovetruth] since we all have
[Apollos] Well you say that you desire righteousness
[Apollos] and he does not
[Apollos] doesn’t that make you morally superior ?
[lovetruth] as testified by thefruit
[Apollos] we need not go there
[lovetruth] Jesus’ righteousness makes me clean
[Apollos] I am simply asking why you are saved
[Apollos] and you are saying that it is because you desire righteousness
[Apollos] and Jean does not
[Apollos] so you are essentially morally superior to Jean
[Apollos] that is why you are saved and Jean is not
[Apollos] correct?
[Apollos] Because you have the moral drive and he does not ?
[lovetruth] Is desiring righteousness morally superior than desiring sin?
[lovetruth] or just a choice
[lovetruth] with no superior element in the making?
[Apollos] what do you thinl ?
[Apollos] is it better to desire sin or righteousness ?
[Apollos] think
[lovetruth] I think it is better, of course
[lovetruth] Jean does not, at this time
[Apollos] beacuse ?
[Apollos] you are just morally ahead of him ?
[Apollos] you are smarter than him ?
[Apollos] why is it ?
[lovetruth] neither
[lovetruth] a choice is neutral
[lovetruth] its effects are not
[Apollos] I am trying to understand what it is about you that Christ chose
[Apollos] that Jean doesn’t have
[Apollos] what is it that makes you a more desireable choice to Christ ?
[lovetruth] that’s the deal Christ desires all and paid for all
[Apollos] So why isn’t Jean saved ?
[lovetruth] beocs he loves sin
[Apollos] I understand that
[Apollos] You have said that
[lovetruth] as per John 3:18
[lovetruth] is it what the bible says
[Apollos] yes
[lovetruth] Calvis say no it is God
[Apollos] but the question again is
[Apollos] Why do you not love sin, and Jean does ?
[Apollos] I am just trying to get to the root
[lovetruth] My flesh loves sin
[Apollos] yes
[lovetruth] but I do not want sin
[Apollos] ok
[Apollos] but Jean does
[lovetruth] I want life
[Apollos] and the question is why ?
[Apollos] why the difference between you
[Apollos] you don’t seem to want to answer that
[lovetruth] choice
[Apollos] Ok so its not by grace
[lovetruth] you don’t seem to hear that
[Apollos] its by choice
[lovetruth] yes, Jesus’ grace
[Apollos] You told me earlier you were saved by grace
[lovetruth] and payment
[lovetruth] is what pays for all
[Apollos] now you are saying that you are saved because you made a choice
[Apollos] a choice that Jean did not make
[Apollos] and I am trying to understand from you
[Apollos] Why it is that you made that choice and Jean did not
[lovetruth] I made choice that Jesus paid for by God’s grace
[Apollos] You keep saying the same thing
[Apollos] without answering the question
[Apollos] let me clarify
[Apollos] I understand that
[Apollos] 1) You chose Jesus and Jea did not
[Apollos] 2) You love righteousness and Jean does not
[lovetruth] Where does the bible say that God makes that decidion for me?
[lovetruth] decision*
[Apollos] 3) You want life, Jean does not
[Apollos] the question is
[Apollos] Why ?
[Apollos] Why the diference
[lovetruth] please answer my question
[Apollos] I understand there is a difference, you have been very clear about that
[Apollos] but what you have not answered
[Apollos] is why the difference
[Apollos] You indicated that you were more moral
[Apollos] than Jean
[lovetruth] No, you indoacted I was more moral
[Apollos] Ok
[Apollos] So please explain why the differences
[lovetruth] I inidcated that the choice was neutral
[lovetruth] its effects were not
[Apollos] why the differences ?
[Apollos] Why have you chosen a path, with all that entails
[Apollos] that Jean has not
[Apollos] Why have you made a decision that Jean has not ?
[Apollos] with all that entails
[lovetruth] Apllos: becos God saw the love I had for Him in my hear and I did not know it
[lovetruth] heart*
[lovetruth] So he set me up
[lovetruth] to a call
[Apollos] again Love truth
[lovetruth] And I then prayed to Jesus
[Apollos] your are going back to what is entailed
[Apollos] You love God , Jean does not
[Apollos] You prayed to Jesus, Jean did not
[Apollos] WHY ?
[lovetruth] I think [I know?) you misunderstand
[Apollos] I don’t misunderstand
[Apollos] You are simply giving me a list of distinctions between a believer and an unbeliever
[Apollos] I understand that these distinctions exist
[Apollos] the question is Why you and not Jean ?
[Apollos] Is it something that you conjured up within yourself that Jean did not ?
[Apollos] something you did that made you more fitting to be saved than Jean
[Apollos] what is it ?
[lovetruth] Apollos, u misunderstand, as per Romans 8:27 I did not know what I wanted
[lovetruth] But God saw I love him in my heart of hearts
[lovetruth] ansd set me up to hear about Jesus as a consequence
[lovetruth] that is the conditional predestination Paul teaches
[Apollos] I see
[Apollos] so you had love for God in your heart, without knowing it
[Apollos] kind of an involuntary love
[Apollos] and Jean didn’t have that involuntary love
[Apollos] So where did this involuntary love come from
[lovetruth] It is as per John 1:12 not a wholly conscious deal
[Apollos] since it did not originate with you ?
[lovetruth] as per JOhn 3:8
[lovetruth] being obrn of the SPirt is not a wholly conscious evetm
[Apollos] So you were born of the Spirit without knowing it ?
[lovetruth] becos it is like the wind Jesus aid
[Apollos] ok
[Apollos] I agree
[lovetruth] remember?
[Apollos] So really
[Apollos] The Spirit chose you
[Apollos] and you did not even know it
[lovetruth] God chose no one to be lost, so no
[Apollos] So
[Apollos] The Spirit of God chose you
[Apollos] But did not choose Jean
[Apollos] at least not yet
[Apollos] Which is why you are saved now
[Apollos] and he is not
[Apollos] right ?
[lovetruth] if u read me, u would know the answer
[Apollos] I just read you
[lovetruth] but u are fixed in your ways
[Apollos] You have no response
[lovetruth] and carry on irrespective
[Apollos] as to why you are saved and Jean is not
[Apollos] you can name off a dozen difference
[Apollos] but the only answer you have
[Apollos] is actually biblical
[Apollos] the Spirit goes where it pleases
[Apollos] and the Spirit regenerated your heart
[lovetruth] I choose for life becos God enalbes us all to choose
[lovetruth] the choice is neutral
[lovetruth] I have said that
[Apollos] but did not regenerate Genes
[Apollos] Jeans
[lovetruth] now please read me
[Apollos] I have been reading you
[lovetruth] but not hearing
[Apollos] you are now going back on what you said about the passage in John 3
[Apollos] Either the Spirit goes where it wishes
[Apollos] or it does not
[Apollos] You have been unable to provide any reason that You were saved and Jean is not
[Apollos] other than that God chose you
[Apollos] and with that, I must go to sleep as well
[Apollos] goodnight lovetruth
[lovetruth] Apollos, where does it say the Spirit goes where ti wishes?
[lovetruth] Good night ApollosThanks to Josh Whipps for editing this for content.
Here’s a video I posted recently that can be a followup to this discussion.
Click the post title to be taken to the source.
“The church is always tempted towards a church of glory, whether that takes the form of grand buildings, political influence, global structures, charismatic personalities or mega-churches. But an approach to the church consistent with the gospel of Christ crucified and discipleship shaped by that gospel is an ecclesiology of the cross. That means power in [...]
